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Warlords of Draenor - General Discussion thread

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Pyro
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FAQ: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/11514711/World_of_Warcraft_Warlords_of_Draenor_BlizzCon_2013_FAQ-10_30_2013

 

Opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYueIdI_2L0

 

I personally like the Personal Garrison but they need to expand it a bit.  :)

 

The garrison needs to be Account bound & not toon bound "with limitations of course" as well as influenced with guildmates garrisons around you

 

What are your thoughts of this new expansion everyone?

 

Any guildmembers viewing the launch from Blizzcon wanting to add some pictures/experience to this?

Edited by: Inomi on 05/28/2014 - 11:27 Reason: Topic reopened for discussion
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Snowfrost
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Interesting what they're doing with raids

 

LFR will be scalable (10-25 people)

What used to be called Flex raids are now called Normal Raids (10-25 people)

What used to be called Normal raids are no called Heroic Raids (10-25 people)

What used to be called Heroic raids are now called Mythic Raids and are set at exactly 20 people.

 

So basically they just changed the names and made everything scalabe except for the hardest level difficulty.

Won't affect us but certianly affects current heroic raiders who currently have the choice of 10 or 25 but will now have to raid mythic 20-man.

 

Edited to add: found a handy diagram of before / after

http://i.imgur.com/EHuaiJW.png

 

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Honesty
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And if you buy the expansion, you get to pick one character to have leveled to 90 so you can start Draenor.  No more excuses Pyro.  )

Elentur
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I'm kinda excited by what I saw and read today.  This is my first year not at Blizzcon, but I was getting the play by play by someone watching the livestream (blocked at work, boo hoo.)  

WIll I pick it up and come back for a spell?  I honestly don't know.  I think for it to sustain ANY momentum generated by the announcement, it needs to come out early spring 2014.  The Heroes of the Storm trailer was much more "oooh!" to me.  Especailly how they're bringing Nova back :)

Overall, though, I think they're going the right direction with the game and mechanics.  I did note one very important change from previous expansions.  NO MAJOR SKILL/TALENT CHANGES!!  

So.. just who is this friend w/  Garrosh?  That's what I want to know.

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Inomi
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I got some good shots from the opening ceremony; or at least i think I did. And I grabbed a clip of the HOTS video that I'll upload. Gonna take a bit though. Lucette and I are EXHAUSTED after today. Managed to get into the CTR party, and meet the legendary Zhug and Koltrane and had a decent conversation with both. Got lots of swag, for which our credit cards are hurting slightly. lol.

All in all, this is shaping up to be an epic blizzcon for to be our first, and likely only one. I just wish my feet didn't hurt so much. :)

In other news, we picked up Trivial Pursuit for WoW. So now we can have a new way to raffle off H's horde of snow pandas. ;)

Cheers all!

Inomi & Lucette

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Pyro
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Well Honesty it's not so much the leveling of the toons to 90, it's the finding of time to get my butt into game without falling asleep.

 

:) than again it would be nice to get either SmithyMule or Darphbobo up to 90 so I had a pure DPS class to play with at those levels, or maybe my lonely old mage Piros who was created a few months after WoW hit general release way back before patch 1.1.x

 

Yea probably SmithyMule will get that so I have a smith/goblin engineer at lvl 90 :) you know me gotta play with my bombs

 

On a side note, I'm starting to build a new PC & going to sell my laptop soon so hopefully by tax time I have a gaming rig fully up & running again.

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Inomi
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As Promised - the teaser video from HOTS. Enjoy! (sorry for the poor quality.) :)

http://youtu.be/J4w90JnKB0c

HOTS Teaser Video - BlizzCon 2013

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Inomi
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No more personal loot in raids with Warlords. :) And so many other things. This is looking great.

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Snowfrost
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You can still set the raid to be personal loot but yeah if you don't opt your raid into that, it defaults to hunter loot.

Also, hit and expertise are gone. And reforging is gone as well. I hope they replace the reforge vendor on the yak with something like a transmog guy or a bank guy.

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Honesty
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Or, replace him by a vendor that sells yaks.  With their own vendors....

I haven't seen...I assume no flying until level cap?  Will there be flying at level cap?

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Inomi
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They haven't mentioned it. If we get another crack at the Warlords demo I will look into it. The demo already has item squish in play btw.

But i would assume no flying until cap. Didn't really hinder anyone last time.

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Inomi
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I'm mostly stoked for the fact that we can do normal and heroic mode raiding with our guild as we like to.

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Honesty
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Me, too, Inomi.  I like the general principle that you can play with your friends.  I think they've been listening in to Lierra.  )

However, I'm a bit puzzled by one thing in their writeup on raids.  The standard flex raid has this in it:

The new Normal and Heroic scalable difficulties will still require you to go to the raid entrance, zone in, start at the first boss, and progress as far as you can in that week.

That implies no raid lockout extension...is that right?

Source

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Inomi
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Perhaps in the way that it is worded, but I hope they don't go that route.

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Lucette
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They didn't elaborate on that. But I'm pretty sure they mean it will follow current normal raid lockout rules.

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Lucette
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HOTS was fun. We sucked at it in spite of advice from some really helpful teammates who'd been through the line a few times already, but I could see it being very addictive. It was definitely the star of the show.

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Lucette
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If not there will be way more people crying over that than there were over the 20man only mythic mode.

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Lucette
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We got a alot of time on the Warlords of Draenor demo today. It looks great. Item squish works really well & Snow...They fixed gun sound effects, they are way less intrusive now.
The new models look great, very true to what already exists but nicely cleaned up & more alive.
Shadowmoon valley was beautiful & the first few quests feel very good so far.

Wasn't a factor in the demo but reforging being removed, a bunch of stats being removed & stats in gear changing depending on spec all make me very happy.

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Lierra
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It's good to hear that there are some pretty places, Lucette.  Blizz has a horrid tendency to destroy their pretty art to recreate Hiroshima after the bomb. <sad face>

 

As someone who'd LIKE to get her alts up to par with more enthusiasm than the last two expansions have left me with, I'm really hoping that the Garrison is account bound.  Just the thought of doing that more than once (I did the Panderan Farm 4 times) makes me want to curl up and hide... or maybe give up WoW.  When my escapism becomes work, something's really wrong, isn't it?

 

I'm finding it interesting/odd that apparently the Devs have decided that reforging doesn't "work".  If they mean the grind that it takes to get the tokens to buy a reforge doesn't work, I'm all for it.  If they've JUST discovered that WoW abilities are all about the gear, then I'm really worried. <wry smile> First they take away some enchants, then they take away reforging... but somehow we're still supposed to have gear good enough to handle whatever they throw at us.  Um, how's that to happen if the drop rates for, say, tier gear stay as they have the last two expansions?  (I had two pieces of tier last expansion, I have only one so far in Panderia.  Your mileage may vary, but I don't think I'm the only Player who regularly plays and raids who's slipping behind the gear curve.)

 

Just my first comments on having read the reports.

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Honesty
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They said something about still working on how to make it easier for alts to have their own Garrisons quickler.  The farm was fairly easy to do with alts...but if it requires uncommon drops etc. I can see that being a problem.

I think they decided to tackle inventory--the classes that had to carry multiple sets of gears were often daunted by that.  This way, it sounds like one set of gear will do you.  It won't help the drop rates on anything, of course, and shields will still never drop.

I'll be interested to see how the crafting works out.

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Lierra
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In my experience, getting 4 farms up and fully running took a LOT of work, Honesty.  What doesn't seem "that much time" when done with one character, multiplies into a great deal of time when you've got 3, 4, or more alts.  And often I barely have energy to do the established farm routine now after a raid - which means doing nothing else or letting the farms roll over a day or two. The latter makes less useful the news of which crop will be more bountiful the day following planting and thus makes the farms less efficient.  More than one or two farms is Work!  The garrison sounds like all that work doubled and tripled and quadupled, depending on how many crafts you're trying to run.  Not to mention that apparently how many garrisons are built and how well they run somehow factors into the competition between the Alliance and the Horde.  Really?  As if Horde-heavy or Alliance-heavy servers don't already have troubles for the smaller faction?

 

At least with a farm, it's only, really, in-game income (money if you sell your produce on the AH; craft materials if you supply yourself, alts, or the Guild; rep/tokens if you take the produce-for-rep option).  You as an individual profit from or ignore your farm.  Your choice.  It has nothing to do with the Horde-Alliance per se.  Your choice doesn't hurt "your side".  

 

Thus, while I do see it as giving loners "more to do"... I also see garrisons as upping the ante on all sorts of levels.

 

Unless they do a LOT to make it easier for alts (and the tokens one can buy that gives you a plus to your rep once one character has maxed the rep is NOT enough, in my opinion), I fear garrisons might be an alt-killer.

 

The current level of effort required to learn raids and earn gear (and run farms <wry smile>) is already, in my case, an alt-killer.  None of my characters lower than 80  have seen any play worth mentioning since Pandera came out... and it was with great effort that I got the last two of my 4 who were above 80 to max. Yet still, only Lierra is really raid-ready.  In some sense, my low level alts are just storage now.  <sad face>  Yes, that's because - in addition to the above mentioned effort - I have a real life.  And that's my choice.  But it's still a little sad that there's not much room left for truly casual play.

 

Just my two cents.  I keep hoping that Blizz devs can find the appropriate medium between fun gaming and grind.

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Lucette
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I agree with you on the extra work with garrisons. I have ignored my farms for weeks at a time because it felt like work & I already do that for 8 hours a day. At most I'll do 2 in a day so garrisons scare me a bit, but If they can make dealing with them quick and easy (maybe with less mashing one button over & over again) I'm interested in it.

The gear I like because it's simplified & I very much enjoy simple things. Reforging can be a huge gold sink depending on certain factors (or trinkets) and I'm not great at maths so all I understand it as is paying make gear you finally won appropriate & I've held off on using a more appropriate piece several times because I didn't have the $200-1500 gold required to bother setting up a new piece that's only slightly better than the one I'm wearing that I set up a week ago. Reforging also probably wouldn't play very nicely with their system that allows your stats to change based on spec, which I think is great feature that will save me a lot of time & bag space :) which means more time for playing alts.

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Turin
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Back in the day (as I understand it) 40 people could down Onyxia without having everyone "raid ready" the point being that you could play with more people. The grind for gear on mains and alts has been such because the bosses have been tuned for a specific number of people at the top of their game having invested way too much time getting attunements/gear/rep/(insert another gating device here). Although i like the carefully tuned encouters, i don't like how this effect has slowly leaked into other areas of the game.

Daily quests should exist. There are many people that enjoy them. Do not make them a requirement for endgame content. Do not make them a requirement for Professions. Do not make them a requirement for faction presence in a zone/area. Do add them with vanity rewards, pet collecting/battles, special vanity recipies/schematics/patterns and armor/weapon customization.

Gating is a good thing. I have often thought that gating sections of LFR on a per month basis rather than a per week basis would make it less of a requirement for normals and prevent burnout from people that cleared the end boss in LFR before the World First ever happened. It feels like Blizzard is finally getting to this point, although LFR as we know it may be dead.

Garrisons should be account bound and advancable by any character on that account. Limit the acess each character has to certain parts of the garrison/npcs based on that character's professions. Make secondary professions account bound. Offer paid character level boosts to level tiers set at the beginning of each expansion. Gate garrison development with a collection of weekly quests that may be completed anytime between tue-tue of each week. There should be no more than three to five unique quests that never repeat tasks. Make Garrisons transcend expansions (after proven to actually work as intended of course in WoD). Add intra- and inter-guild features (if they don't already exist) to garrisons.

Raid gear should be awarded by raiding. Make emblems available by killing bosses in raids. Increase loot drop rates per person. Include unlimited rep from killing trash in the raid with rewards such as emblems for each rep tier and access to a wider variety of gear than we have currently seen. Tune bosses to be hard throughout the difficulty levels so that a fully-clothed-in-normal-level-gear is still challenged creatively midway through that tier of raids (a point where DPS checks are more acceptable rather than at the beginning of the raid).

Here ends my suggestions to the panel. :)

I find it interesting that there is an item squish followed by the removal of the majority of our most familliar stats. All of these secondary stats (haste, mastery, critical strike, hit  and expertise) will further be automated based on class/spec. But what does that mean for PvP in it's current state? Do PvP power and resistence stats become a sort of primary stat on gear specifically desinged for PvP? How are they going to chose to curb the use of PvE gear in PvP? Since they are incorporating more and more Bioware ideas, are they going to follow the SWTOR PvP model?

I personally like the idea of four different raid difficulty levels. The gear needs to be graduated from each but perhaps not as much as in MoP 5.4. Specifically, since they have not currently decided to change the upgrade system yet, make the second upgrade of each tier exceed the next tier by a small amount. This will encourage the more skillful players to start in their own difficulty level without having to complete the others first. This would obviously be impossible if each difficulty were gated upon the completion of the one before it. Any thoughts?

Please note these are just ideas thrown out there without much regard or effort to dressing them up. :)

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Pyro
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woohoo finally dropping my note in.  :) I agree for the most part but it'd be better for a slight modification... instead of Account bound there needs to be a bit of a restriction to it... I'd say make the progress Limited to the following factors,  Account >> Realm >> Faction.  That way if your toons all match all 3 they hit the same garrison, where as if you have half horde half alliance you'll have 2 garrisons & so on.  This way it'd limit the power leveling of Garison buffs on realms that aren't as developed as Hyjal or realm x of wherever the person's main is.  I would also like to see modifications to the growth/capacity/sizing of the garison relating to the size & activeness of the Guild(s) the toons in question are in.

 

Now if we could convince the powers to be at Blizzard to do the following to the gear that may take the headache out of raid gearing for many...

 

Take for example Player A starts out in LFR & gets a full set of gear then follows the guild into normal and/or heroic raids with a full set that has gems & enchants out the rear on them "Sorry didn't read up to see if those still existed" the Lootmaster would have the option of sending them an upgrade token to whatever gear they were on.  So instead of replacing LFR Pants with Normal Paints & then again with Heroic Pants & getting re-enchanted every time, an upgrade token could be used & it would bump up the item's iLevel & stats without removing any user modification(s)

 

The above however would not alter the gear drops from any boss, as the boss would still drop only certain items which those certain items could only be used to upgrade prior versions of themselves.

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Inomi
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And for all of this we are asking for everything on a silver platter I think. :) I too am often tempted by the thought of how much easier it would be if they would do it /this/ way. Thing is, or at least I've come to see it this way, the game is meant to take time. It is meant not to be easy, nor to work itself around our lives. As something that we love to do, to play and enjoy, we have to take and accept the demands on our time if we are to achieve all the goals in wow that we want.

What I think Blizzard has done fairly well at is allowing a player to pick and choose the kind of content they want to do, without forcing them to do everything in order to do anything.

I also suffer from a lack of time to dedicate to wow; or at least the amount of time I /want/ to dedicate to it. So I have to pick and choose the things I want to do. Personally I would love to do pet battles and such, but with raiding and professions and questing, all of which I enjoy more, I just don't have the time. So I don't do it. Alts are like this for me too. I greatly enjoy playing both my mage and my monk, but can't do everything on both so I dedicate the majority of my time to my raiding main, because that's what I want to do the most right now. Does it suck that I can't do both? Perhaps. But the thing is, wow is getting to the point where there is way too much content for any one player with real life demands on their time to do more than hone in on the key things they want to do. It is what it is. :)

So at the end of the day, I'm looking forward to everything this expansion has promised to bring, and in whatever form it brings it in. No matter what, it's going to be fun.

And one last thing I would like to add to this rant: where we are feeling forced to quadruple our time spent on "farms" per se, perhaps we are trying to solo the game too much. We have a wealth of players in Trivial all willing to help out where they can. Let's not forget that we are a part of a guild, and that one of the biggest reasons to be a part of such a great community is to help each other out, and be helped out by others. If we are struggling somewhere, let us find a way to reach out to our community and ask for that help. I would wager that where one member feels strained to accomplish their goals/contributions, another doesn't even realize it but would be willing to help if asked. Thats just how great Trivial is. So let's focus on that if we can, and come what way, let all these matters be Trivial. :)

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Adyanna
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Female gnomes are now the Miley Cyrus characters of WoW?

 

cool yup had to say it, don't think turin believed me when i said i would.

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Inomi
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so you're race changing i take it? ;)

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Inomi
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Got some word on this via the CTR podcast that GC attended Saturday. It looks like they haven't decided at yet. They're currently tossing around a few ideas related to when we get flying in WoD:

  1. At level 100
  2. After level 100 somehow (TBD)
  3. After level 100, like in a patch, whether it be 6.1 or 6.2...
    This idea intruiges me. In fact, I kind of t hink I prefer it of all the choices. But then, I like the idea of the game taking a little bit longer to move through, and thus we get a greater sense of the environment and our surroundings, and have a greater chance at developing community as a result; and also the top-end players have to take longer to get things down an pwn markets. :)

 

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Honesty
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On the whole, I think I'd prefer flying to be available at a patch.  It removes one of the pressures on leveling quickly, letting people take their time and play the game.

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Inomi
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Agreed.

I hope they go this route; however, I'm not optimistic that they will. Too much pressure from the "vocal minority" for them to do otherwise, I would assume.

Either way, WoD is gonna be great. :)

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Inomi
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...copied from wow.joystiq.com...

There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor.

No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

...more @ http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/14/bashiok-on-flying-mounts-in-warlords-of-draenor/ ...

So it would seem that we're (at least at this point) likely to get our wish. I'm looking forward to it. They need to make the expansion take a little more time at the beginning I think, and that way things can taper off less quickly towards the end.

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